

Feb 02
2007
Normal Vaginal Births Cause Infant Brain Hemorrhages
Thread
Normal Vaginal Births Cause Infant Brain Hemorrhages
Archived User
Feb 02, 2007 02:55 AM
Yeah, look what I found... http://www.medpagetoday.com/OBGYN/Pregnancy/tb/4961
I especially like the note at the end of the article: 'The research was support by grants from the National Institute of Mental Health and the University of North Carolina School of Medicine. The researchers said they had no financial conflicts.' This made me think about the story 'The Butterfly and the Cesarian': The Butterfly and the Caesarean A man found a cocoon of a butterfly. A a small opening appeared, and he watched the butterfly struggle to force its body through that little hole. It seemed to stop making any progress. It appeared as if it had gotten as far as it could and could go no farther. The man helped the butterfly; he took scissors and snipped off the remaining bit of the cocoon. The butterfly then emerged easily. But it had a swollen body and small, shriveled wings. The man expected that, at any moment, the wings would enlarge and expand to be able to support the body, which would contract in time. It didn't. The butterfly spent the rest of its life crawling around with a swollen body and shriveled wings. It never was able to fly. What the man did not understand was that the restricting cocoon and the struggle required for the butterfly to to get through the tiny opening were God's way of forcing fluid from the body of the butterfly into its wings so it would be ready for flight once it achieved freedom from the cocoon. So, there is blood. Maybe it is supposed to be there? Maybe there is a a reason we don't understand? I can only roll my eyes at this... Any comments, Henci? By the way, I am now using a Mac and this forum looks very different on the Mac. Or was there a design change since last time I visited? I wasn't sure where to put this mail. On my former computer I could just start a new topic. I hope it is ok in this folder. maria. |
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RE: Normal Vaginal Births Cause Infant Brain Hemorrhages
Henci Goer
Feb 02, 2007 09:45 PM
Starting with your last comment first, it isn't your switch to a Mac. We are using new Forum software. It went live last week.
As for the new study, I'm on it. Stay tuned; I've got a copy of the study and will be posting a critique of it in the next day or so. -- Henci P.S. I loved your story of the man and the butterfly. |
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RE: Normal Vaginal Births Cause Infant Brain Hemorrhages
Archived User
Feb 03, 2007 02:12 AM
Ahh! Well, it looks nice! Except that I can't log on. I don't have my password anymore and when I tried 'reset password' here, it doesn't work. Glitch? Feel free to use the story to make a point anywhere you feel fit! It is not mine, but I know it is circling openly without copyright on the web. I love it too. Very much looking forward to your comments/analyses/debunking of the research! Is the whole HPV scandal in Texas within your range of work? I call it a scandal at least. I am outraged. I could so use a 'Henci' here :-) maria. |
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RE: Normal Vaginal Births Cause Infant Brain Hemorrhages
Henci Goer
Feb 03, 2007 02:26 AM
Hmm. My recommendation is to start again as if you were never previously registered on the site. That is what they did for me. If that doesn't work, there is a link to the webmaster on the opening page with all the info about the Forum. And if that doesn't work, let me know, and I'll see who I can contact.
Sorry you're having problems. As for the Texas HPV brouhaha, a friend just sent me some articles on that. It seems the Texas governor overrode the process and approved administering the vaccine with, of course, the right of parents to refuse. Aside from the absurdity that a teenaged girl will decide to have or not have sex based on her risk of getting the HPV virus, has it not occurred to opponents of vaccination on moral grounds that a perfectly chaste, virgin-until-marriage young woman can marry a man who either has or picks up the virus or that she may be assaulted by someone carrying the virus? And even if it is what some may define as a moral issue, does a sexually active woman or girl deserve cancer as punishment? -- Henci |
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RE: Normal Vaginal Births Cause Infant Brain Hemorrhages
Archived User
Feb 03, 2007 03:05 AM
Just had to add this, copied from the CDC website, under the header 'HPV and men':
'Should I be worried that I cannot be tested or treated for HPV? No.
HPV is not like other sexually transmitted infections (STIs), which
need to be detected and treated. HPV is a virus that lives in the skin,
rather than in your body. There is no clear health benefit to knowing
you have this virus—since HPV is unlikely to affect your health and
cannot be treated. For most men, there would be no need to treat HPV,
even if treatment were available— since it usually goes away on its
own.' GASP So the women will be mandated by law to be immunized, whereas the men are free to fool around... I am sure that what it says is true for men on a deserted island, but HPV is a STD and does not exist without the sexual connection, or at least not in a way that would cause problems to women... In light of this http://www.fwhc.org/health/vaccine.htm and this http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/STEALTH.TXT this vaccine is down right scary because it seems like a small step from one thing to the next. This is very much outside the scope of this forum though :-) Just being paranoid? maria |
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RE: Normal Vaginal Births Cause Infant Brain Hemorrhages
Archived User
Feb 03, 2007 08:21 AM
Posted By n/a on 02/03/2007 12:12 AM
Maria and others, in the upgrade to the new software, we lost the ability for users to log in to the forums except for Lamaze Members who have this ability. We are looking into how we might be able to restore that feature in the future. But for now, you will just need to enter a username each time you post or reply to a post.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Amy Romano
Forum Administrator
Ahh! Well, it looks nice! Except that I can't log on. I don't have my password anymore and when I tried 'reset password' here, it doesn't work. Glitch? |
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RE: Normal Vaginal Births Cause Infant Brain Hemorrhages
Henci Goer
Feb 04, 2007 03:33 PM
So, as I wrote a couple of posts back, I said I would take a look at the study summarized under the Medpage Today headline “Normal Vaginal Births Cause Infant Brain Hemorrhages.” I have pasted in the study’s abstract and the URL for it from PubMed for those of you not familiar with the study’s details.
Intracranial hemorrhage in asymptomatic neonates: prevalence on MR images and relationship to obstetric and neonatal risk factors.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=Display&DB=pubmed
Here are the problems and weaknesses that jumped out at me:
It is, to put it mildly, disingenuous to recommend telling parents that vaginal birth causes “brain hemorrhage” while cesareans do not, and then add “but we think it’s probably nothing to worry about.” There is, however, a real take-home message that was noted by the investigators but didn’t make it into the news or the study abstract: Should a baby in the first weeks of life undergo neurologic imaging, finding a bit of blood under the skull does not necessarily mean the baby has been physically abused—at least, considering the number of instrumental deliveries and the amount of delivery trauma reported in this study, not by the baby’s family. -- Henci
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RE: Normal Vaginal Births Cause Infant Brain Hemorrhages
Archived User
Feb 04, 2007 09:34 PM
Thank you, Henci!
maria. |
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RE: Normal Vaginal Births Cause Infant Brain Hemorrhages
Archived User
Feb 05, 2007 09:24 AM
Thank you Henci.
I suspected they hadn't controlled for interventive births. Now to debunk this we would need to test a population of totally natural birth babies. However, how many people would consent to this type of testing for their newborn infant? Why would you want to subject a newborn to an MRI unless it was truly medically necessary? Do we know that the testing it's self does not effect the brain? There is so much we don't know. I would be curious to know what prompted them to do this study in the first place. I'm getting rather tired of studies that continually try to prove that the normal way to birth is dangerous, and that c-sections are safer. Argh! Amy Amy V. Haas, BCCE www.healthybirth.net |
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RE: Normal Vaginal Births Cause Infant Brain Hemorrhages
Archived User
Feb 05, 2007 02:05 PM
I am so glad you pointed out this great information. I saw this article front and center on a weekly update provided by BabyCenter.com. Frightening, as most women on the site are less inclined to challenge official research findings, taking it at face value. You should post an abbreviated version on their site.
Leah |
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RE: Normal Vaginal Births Cause Infant Brain Hemorrhages
Henci Goer
Feb 06, 2007 03:23 PM
I'm pleased to know that you find my post helpful. Deconstructing these studies is my idea of a good time. To be honest, I don't spend time surfing other sites. You could certainly link to my post, though, or copy and paste into a post on the BabyCenter.com site. And while you were at it, I can't say enough good things about the Lamaze Giving Birth with Confidence blog at http://birthwithconfidence.blogs.lamaze.org/. You might give them a plug. |
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RE: Normal Vaginal Births Cause Infant Brain Hemorrhages
Archived User
Feb 26, 2007 06:31 PM
I just posted some talking points about the “brain bleed” study under "Resources for Educators" here. |
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RE: Normal Vaginal Births Cause Infant Brain Hemorrhages
Archived User
Jun 23, 2008 02:43 PM
Hi, my baby was born 4 weeks ago, by a normal birth (vaginal) and yes, the doctor adviced us he has two cephalohematomes. They are two swollen areas filled with blood and liquid, they measure 3/4" each, but then again the same doctor (he's the pediatric doctor of the birth center in wich my baby was born) specified us that this hemorrhages are "normal" (at least in this center) and they should be disappeared by 6 months or so... |
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RE: Normal Vaginal Births Cause Infant Brain Hemorrhages
Henci Goer
Jun 26, 2008 10:36 PM
A cephalohematoma is a fancy word for a type of bruise, that is, bleeding under the scalp and outside the skull. It will take a while for the bruise to go away, as it does for any bruise, but they are not a problem. The study discussed in this thread is about bleeding inside the skull, which in the wrong place and in sufficient quantity--although not in the study under discussion--can be serious. -- Henci |
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RE: Normal Vaginal Births Cause Infant Brain Hemorrhages
Archived User
Nov 08, 2010 06:18 PM
I had posted a question in another section about this same thing but I think you may be able to answer it from this blog. My son was born with what the doctors called two "epidural hematomas". They were very large and stayed on his head until his was about 4 months old. It has always scared me thinking that the blood could have gone under the skull instead of on top. I am now pregnant and due in Jan and am afraid of this happening again and maybe worse. I was wondering if there are some type of positions or something else I could do to try and prevent this from happening again? It was a very long and drawn out labor with my first and it seemed as though he was just stuck for a really long time. Thank you. |
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RE: Normal Vaginal Births Cause Infant Brain Hemorrhages
Henci Goer
Nov 11, 2010 10:41 AM
Unfortunately, I have been in a car accident and am recovering from knee surgery. I will not be able to respond to your question at this time. Apologies. ~ Henci |
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