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 Find out what other moms-to-be are asking. Join in the discussion with Henci Goer, an expert in obstetric research. If you would like to contact Henci outside of the Ask Henci forum, send an email to Goersitemail@aol.com.
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Topic: Trust Birth Conference |
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Posted By on 15 Jan 2008 07:48 PM
Oh, you'll be a wonderful Petunia! :-)
I know you disagree, and I respect that. And I appreciate it that you respect women to make their own educated choice about birth choices :-)
Most unassisted birthers I know are wonderfully well educated and knowledgeable mommas. And yes, many of them are in a bind because they can simply not find a midwife who trusts birth, trusts the moms instincts, is competent and that *they can afford*! Not to mention the states where midwifery is illegal. So, I agree with you in general, but as an unassisted birther, I so deeply understand the autonomy women want and so understand the extend to which they (we) go to educate ourselves. And we are educated by midwives and people like you so as far as I am concerned, I have utmost respect for the 'professionals'.
As far as I know though, there has been no solid research in unassisted birth versus home birth results. Am I wrong? What is your conclusion about unassisted birth based on?
Just from what I hear on the news about oops births though, and from the women around the world I know who have had unassisted births, so no numbers just an impression, but nonetheless, the outcome is the same, though maybe with more transfer. And that is too bad because often times these could be prevented if there was an attendant or the mother was more educated. Barring an emergency where transfer is needed, most unassisted birthers can take care of most if not all complications themselves. They do not have the experience of midwives but their advantage is that they know their bodies and are intimately in tune with it without outside interruption. This is a huge benefit because she will know when something is wrong and transfer.
Anyway, did not mean to digress, just wanted to know what you are basing your opinion on. I am curious to know how the outcome 'only birth with a skilled attendant is safe' was researched.
Much love,
maria.
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RE: Trust Birth Conference |
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| Topic Review |  | |
maria
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Henci Goer, BA
Ask Henci
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| 05 Oct 2009 03:31 PM |
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Let us know more when you do.
-- Henci |
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maria
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| 04 Oct 2009 06:14 AM |
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There is another Trust Birth conference coming!!
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Henci Goer, BA
Ask Henci
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| 16 Mar 2008 11:39 PM |
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I can't give a full report because I only attended one session besides my own. This was Sarah Buckley's excellent talk on prenatal testing and ultrasound. I haven't been following the ultrasound research, but what she said would make me extremely leery of having ultrasound imaging except for a limited set of specific reasons such as to rule out placenta previa when there is bleeding. Even more chilling, an audience member volunteered that she knew of women being fired by their obstetricians for refusing a routine sonogram. I hope that this is no more than rumor or misunderstanding or not knowing the whole story. I would hate to think that we had come to such a pass as this.
-- Henci
P.S. Dr. Buckley is working on an updated version of a book she has written that up to now has only been available in Australia, where she lives, or through her website. The new version will be published in the U.S. |
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maria (guest)
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| 12 Mar 2008 05:34 AM |
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How was it, Henci?
Will we get a full report?
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maria (guest)
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| 07 Feb 2008 05:58 AM |
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Absolutely, Henci. And I certainly do not wish to antagonize nor polarize assisted and unassisted birth. I think the biggest work to be done out there is to trust birth, so thank you to all of you giants who are working on that! If then some women choose to have an unassisted birth, I hope that there can be support available if and when needed.
Turning the tables, where is your “solid” evidence that women are
sufficiently in tune with their bodies in labor that they will know to
move into the hospital? Or that unassisted birthers can take care of
complications themselves? Without training or prior experience and with
the emergency happening to a loved one, my prediction is that
those present would be just as likely to be overwhelmed and paralyzed
as not.
That would be a long and interesting discussion! I have no solid evidence, of course, except my own experience and the shared experience of others. I can't speak for them and I haven't had an emergency happen to me, but *technically* both my partner and I would know what to do.
I can only reflect on one of my births where I owe it to my midwife to have left me alone. Things would have turned out very differently in that birth if she had been a very hands on midwife following protocol. She trusted me though, and I knew. I knew what the baby needed to get into position, I knew there was a lip, I knew what would work. I had had PROM for over 24 hours, but there was no inkling in my body telling me to worry. This was just a variation of normal though, but in a hospital or with a medwife, I can only imagine the interventions!
Anyway, digressing again. :-D In the end it comes down to informed decision, in any birth choice.
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Henci Goer, BA
Ask Henci
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| 07 Feb 2008 05:20 AM |
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To follow up to Carla's post, I think it is important not to huddle in little enclaves of People Who Think Just Like Us but to engage in reasoned discourse and exchange of ideas with those who don't. You don't really know what you think until you have tried to explain your position to someone who doesn't share it and have listened to them explain theirs. (This, of course, is assuming that those who hold different opinions will be treated with respect, which I have confidence that they will at the Trust Birth conference.)
I also think it is important that we who are advocates for, well, whatever you want to call it: normal birth, mother-friendly care, physiologic care, undisturbed birth, humane birth, safe motherhood, Midwives Model of Care, find common ground where we can as this allows us to form strategic alliances. We don't have to agree on everything to work together on issues where we do agree.
-- Henci |
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Carla Hartley (guest)
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| 04 Feb 2008 10:54 AM |
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| Yes we do have some UC topics but it is certainly NOT all about UC. It is about TRUSTING BIRTH....so that naturally includes UC. We have applied for LAMAZE CEUs ....the Trust Birth Awards Dinner is going to be wonderful. We are honoring Michel Odent, Ricki Lake and Dr.John Stevenson...and more....I hopw you will all come!
www.trustbirthconference.com |
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Henci Goer, BA
Ask Henci
Posts:464
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| 17 Jan 2008 04:27 PM |
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Most notably, the research evidence is in a 1987 Missouri study of home birth. There was an excess rate of neonatal death among the planned home births compared with hospital birth, but the excess was confined to the segment attended by those who were not members of the Missouri Midwives Association.
Schramm WF, Barnes DE, Bakewell JM. Neonatal mortality in Missouri home births. Am J Public Health 1987;77(8):930-5.
It is extremely unlikely that we will ever have "solid research" in unassisted childbirth given the difficulties of mounting a study on this topic. That being the case, I hold by my logic-based argument: we know there are situations where a skilled pair of hands and modest equipment can put things right or stabilize a woman or baby for transport. Therefore, if these are lacking, disaster may ensue. (I am aware, by the way, of one case where it did.)
Turning the tables, where is your “solid” evidence that women are sufficiently in tune with their bodies in labor that they will know to move into the hospital? Or that unassisted birthers can take care of complications themselves? Without training or prior experience and with the emergency happening to a loved one, my prediction is that those present would be just as likely to be overwhelmed and paralyzed as not.
Nonetheless, to restate my position, I respect the right of women to make their own decisions, and I agree that sometimes a woman may be better off with no professional birth attendant than with the ones available to her.
-- Henci |
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maria (guest)
Posts:695
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| 16 Jan 2008 12:48 AM |
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Oh, you'll be a wonderful Petunia! :-)
I know you disagree, and I respect that. And I appreciate it that you respect women to make their own educated choice about birth choices :-)
Most unassisted birthers I know are wonderfully well educated and knowledgeable mommas. And yes, many of them are in a bind because they can simply not find a midwife who trusts birth, trusts the moms instincts, is competent and that *they can afford*! Not to mention the states where midwifery is illegal. So, I agree with you in general, but as an unassisted birther, I so deeply understand the autonomy women want and so understand the extend to which they (we) go to educate ourselves. And we are educated by midwives and people like you so as far as I am concerned, I have utmost respect for the 'professionals'.
As far as I know though, there has been no solid research in unassisted birth versus home birth results. Am I wrong? What is your conclusion about unassisted birth based on?
Just from what I hear on the news about oops births though, and from the women around the world I know who have had unassisted births, so no numbers just an impression, but nonetheless, the outcome is the same, though maybe with more transfer. And that is too bad because often times these could be prevented if there was an attendant or the mother was more educated. Barring an emergency where transfer is needed, most unassisted birthers can take care of most if not all complications themselves. They do not have the experience of midwives but their advantage is that they know their bodies and are intimately in tune with it without outside interruption. This is a huge benefit because she will know when something is wrong and transfer.
Anyway, did not mean to digress, just wanted to know what you are basing your opinion on. I am curious to know how the outcome 'only birth with a skilled attendant is safe' was researched.
Much love,
maria.
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Henci Goer, BA
Ask Henci
Posts:464
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| 15 Jan 2008 02:14 PM |
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Yes, Carla is very pro unassisted childbirth, which will make me the petunia in her conference potato patch because I am not. On the one hand, I respect a woman's right to make decisions about her birth even if I don't think it is the wisest choice. I also understand that given the hazards of conventional obstetric management, where it is not possible to obtain the services of a qualified home birth attendant, unattended home birth may well be the lesser of the two evils. On the other hand, there are things that can go wrong unexpectedly that can be put right or stabilized or caught in time to move into an environment with greater resources if the woman is attended by someone who knows what she is doing and who carries simple equipment and a few medications to deal with it. The research, I should add, bears out that the safety of out-of-hospital birth depends on having a prescreened woman who is attended by someone with the requisite knowledge and skill.
-- Henci |
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maria (guest)
Posts:695
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| 13 Jan 2008 10:32 PM |
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Wonderful, Henci!
I think Carla is just awesome. A very pro UC conference too, from what I can see ;-)
maria.
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Henci Goer, BA
Ask Henci
Posts:464
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| 27 Nov 2007 04:26 AM |
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Thanks for posting this. I will be speaking at this conference. My topics are "The Limitations of Evidence-Based Medicine" and "The VBAC Dilemma."
-- Henci |
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maria (guest)
Posts:695
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| 27 Nov 2007 01:19 AM |
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http://www.trustbirthconference.com/
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