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Find out what other moms-to-be are asking. Join in the discussion with Henci Goer, an expert in obstetric research. If you would like to contact Henci outside of the Ask Henci forum, send an email to Goersitemail@aol.com.
If you would like your own username and password for the Ask Henci forum, click here to submit your request.
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Topic: The OB disinformation campaign |
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Posted By on 05 Jul 2008 03:23 PM I have to agree with Ms Goer concerning Dr Amy. I have also got sucked into debating her; it's a waste of time. I think that everyone should read BOTH sides of the debate, question the sources of and credibility of advocates on BOTH sides, then make up their own minds. Bickering will not move the cause forward for either side.
Hi all, my name is Brandy and I am a writer, an independent filmmaker, and grad student. My background is literature and visual arts, however I used to be an activist and advocated for single payer health care (among other issues).
I see a naturopathic doctor on a regular basis and I have long been interested in alternative medicine as I have strong criticisms of our for-profit health care system, pharmaceutical industry, especially. I have a friend who saw, "The Business of Being Born" and sent me a clip of it. I have not seen the film yet, but I have researched home birth after seeing the clip and the criticisms that home birth advocates have of hospital births closely mirrors that of others who want to reform the health care system in different ways. I understand that not all here may agree with single payer and have different opinions on many issues surrounding health care, and that is fine. A respectful exchange between people with different opinions is fine. Fighting with trolls, is, as I said above, a waste of time, I have learned.
Our local alternative weekly here in Baltimore ran a great piece on home birth and I am here mainly to be educated and to learn more. I have read much of the information on this site, but this is my first time posting. |
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RE: The OB disinformation campaign |
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| Topic Review |  | |
Henci Goer, BA
 Ask Henci Posts:520

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| 25 Oct 2008 04:28 AM |
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I'm not sure why you feel that this may be your only opportunity to post on this Forum. Everyone is welcome here provided their interest is polite discourse and a genuine interest in what the research to the best of our knowledge supports as safe, effective, and satisfying maternity care.
If you want to know more about the errors of fact and logic that Amy makes and her refusal to acknowledge those errors, the topic "home birth & birth centers" has more than one thread on this topic. You can also use the search function to find the multiple places where Tuteur's arguments have been rebutted by me and others. Her personal attacks have been deleted.
-- Henci |
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collin237 (guest) Posts:763

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| 21 Oct 2008 03:24 AM |
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Granted that this may be my only chance to post here...
Amy's rebuttal of Johnson & Daviss seems to make sense. (Quite rare for Amy.)
What is your disagreement with it?
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Henci Goer, BA
 Ask Henci Posts:520

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Jenni (guest) Posts:763

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| 11 Jul 2008 06:43 AM |
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Can anyone tell me anything about Tuteur's recent claims that babies are drowning during waterbirths? According to Barbara Harper, RN, founder of Waterbirth International and author of Gentle Birth Choices, babies die during waterbirth only if they are left under the water for a significant amount of time after the birth (i.e., after they stop receiving oxygenated blood from the placenta and umbilical cord).
Thanks! |
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Jenni (guest) Posts:763

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| 11 Jul 2008 06:38 AM |
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Hi, Brandy! It's Jenni. (I'm the one who sent her the "BOBB" clip.) I'm so glad you've developed an interest in home birth! |
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Jenn (guest) Posts:763

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| 09 Jul 2008 10:40 PM |
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Posted By Henci Goer on 06/28/2008 2:29 PM
I seriously doubt that malpractice premiums are the issue whatever ob/gyns might say for why they dropped ob because the costs just get passed along in what obs charge. Let's put it this way: I'll believe in obs crying poor when the hospital doctors' parking lot is filled with older model compact cars.
-- Henci
LOL! I said much the same thing in a discussion on the HB Debate blog...that my heart wasn't really bleeding for the poverty of people with a median income of $250K. |
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Brandy Baker (guest) Posts:763

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| 06 Jul 2008 01:14 AM |
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| Thank you so much for the recommendations, looking forward to exploring forward to exploring this topic more.
Best,
BB |
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Henci Goer, BA
 Ask Henci Posts:520

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| 05 Jul 2008 11:53 PM |
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I am delighted to have you joining the discussion. If you have continued interest in researching home birth, I suggest:
Fullerton JT, Navarro AM, and Young SH. Outcomes of planned home birth: an integrative review. J Midwifery Womens Health 2007;52:323-33.
I also suggest my deconstruction of the Pang 2002 home birth study, an extremely flawed study that is being used as evidence of the riskiness of home birth. The link Maria posted (I'm not sure whether it is in this thead or only in the home birth topic "two questions" thread) also has a superb discussion of home birth issues.
-- Henci |
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Brandy Baker (guest) Posts:763

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| 05 Jul 2008 08:23 PM |
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I have to agree with Ms Goer concerning Dr Amy. I have also got sucked into debating her; it's a waste of time. I think that everyone should read BOTH sides of the debate, question the sources of and credibility of advocates on BOTH sides, then make up their own minds. Bickering will not move the cause forward for either side.
Hi all, my name is Brandy and I am a writer, an independent filmmaker, and grad student. My background is literature and visual arts, however I used to be an activist and advocated for single payer health care (among other issues).
I see a naturopathic doctor on a regular basis and I have long been interested in alternative medicine as I have strong criticisms of our for-profit health care system, pharmaceutical industry, especially. I have a friend who saw, "The Business of Being Born" and sent me a clip of it. I have not seen the film yet, but I have researched home birth after seeing the clip and the criticisms that home birth advocates have of hospital births closely mirrors that of others who want to reform the health care system in different ways. I understand that not all here may agree with single payer and have different opinions on many issues surrounding health care, and that is fine. A respectful exchange between people with different opinions is fine. Fighting with trolls, is, as I said above, a waste of time, I have learned.
Our local alternative weekly here in Baltimore ran a great piece on home birth and I am here mainly to be educated and to learn more. I have read much of the information on this site, but this is my first time posting. |
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maria (guest) Posts:763

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| 05 Jul 2008 04:52 PM |
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I noticed that as well. Also, I still have to find where Johnson and Daviss acknowledge their faking the study as Amy has said they did in diff places.
Someone did post this on the article debate http://understandingbirthbetter.com/section.php?ID=31&Lang=En&Nav=Section
Also, I a am perusing the WHO study and cannot find numbers to confirm what Dr. Amy says about the mortality rate.
I would like to see the exact places and quotes because obvisouly Ic an find them and I really want to get to the bottom of this.
maria.
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jules (guest) Posts:763

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| 05 Jul 2008 01:10 PM |
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| Dr Tuteur has been highly critical of the Johnson and Davis study on home birth, arguing that it actually shows home birth to be more dangerous than hospital birth, in complete contrast to the study's conclusions - she has stated this many times on many different discussion boards. However when you go to the actual online study and read the responses to the Johnson and Davis article there is nothing there from Dr Tuteur stating her concerns. If she had real and valid concerns over the way the study was done wouldn't this be the best place to voice those concerns. I did note that the BMJ do vet all responses and won't publish anything obscene, libellous or rude - perhaps her reponse didn't get through their vetting procedure!! |
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Henci Goer, BA
 Ask Henci Posts:520

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| 02 Jul 2008 06:03 AM |
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Quote from Angela's post: "If [Tuteur] feels so strongly, why wont she come on our turf and discuss it here? And why does she spend so much energy demanding that Henci prove herself when in fact, Amy should be the one doing the explaining? Not that I'm trying to encourage an all out battle in this forum, mind you.... "
The first time Tuteur invaded this Forum, I had no idea who she was. After taking her seriously and writing detailed, thoughtful responses to her in a couple of back-and-forths, I realized I was dealing with what my son, much more knowledgeable than I, called a "troll," that is, someone who attempts to hijack a message board by bullying and being belligerant. During that same time period, a correspondent told me who she is and her agenda and advised me not to "feed the dragon," advice I heartily recommend to all of you. After thinking about it, I decided that the fair thing to do is to limit her to one post and one rebuttal to whatever I wrote in response. After that, I would delete further posts. That way she could have her say, but I would not permit her to use my Forum as another platform for an endless series of rants. I told her that was what I was going to do and I did it. And that is why you have not seen her on our "turf" until the past few days, when, as you can also see, I invoked my rule. It is, by the way, a rule I would apply to anyone else who behaves the way Tuteur does, but no one else ever has so far.
-- Henci |
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maria (guest) Posts:763

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| 02 Jul 2008 04:19 AM |
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Oh, how refreshing. Thank you! maria.
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Karen A. Crouse, RN, MSN, CNM, LCCE
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| 02 Jul 2008 03:32 AM |
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Please read below...It is nice to see a medical professional in supportive of Midwifery Care and Out of Hospital Birth....
I subscribe to a Home-Birth forum through ACNM. Thought my fellow SNMs-CNMs would enjoy the letter below and Others in the Birth CommunityStuart J. Fischbein's Letter to ACOG Fri, 06/27/2008 - 07:03 — admin From: Stuart J. Fischbein, MD FACOG To: Douglas H. Kirkpatrick, MD, President, American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists Date sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 Douglas H. Kirkpatrick, MD The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists PO Box 96920 Washington, DC 20090-2188 Dear Sir: I am a practicing OB/GYN in southern California and Fellow of ACOG and recently was informed by midwife colleagues of your recommendation and encouragement for the AMA to lobby Congress for a law banning out of hospital birth. It is disturbing to me that I had to hear of this decision from outside sources and was never approached by my college to see how I or my local colleagues felt about it. I have grave concerns regarding my organization taking such a stand. I think we are all agreed that ACOG has a statement regarding patients’ rights to informed consent and informed refusal. Yet, it seems with every decision our organization moves further away from that basic tenet. ACOG’s little "guideline" paper on VBAC in 2004 where the word readily was changed to immediately has had the chilling effect of doing away with VBAC options at hundreds of hospitals. Not due to patient safety, or the ideal of giving true informed consent but really, let’s be honest, due to fear of litigation. I have seen how patients have become counseled by obstetricians at facilities where VBAC has been banned. They are clearly given a skewed view of the risks of VBAC but rarely told of the risks of multiple surgeries. If you think this is untrue you are, sadly, out of touch with real clinical medicine. As to out of hospital birthing, please give me the courtesy of an explanation as to the evidenced-based data you used and the process by which an organization which is supposed to represent me came to this conclusion. Any statement saying that it is as simple as patient safety and that one-size fits all hospital births under the "obstetric model" of practice should be applied to all patients is, putting it nicely, not really in line with what best serves all our patients. In many instances, hospitals are not safe, certainly not nurturing and have a far worse track record for disasters than home birth. Even when emergency help is nearby this is true. The focus of all of us in medicine should be on reigning in trial lawyers and tort reform and lobbying Congress for that. The best interest of the college members and the patients we serve would be for my organization to spend its time and energy on something that has true benefit. Removing choices from well-informed patients and caring doctors and midwives is wholly un-American. So please send me detailed information on how ACOG decided outlawing home birth would be a wise thing to do. You must have conclusive scientific data to take such a drastic stand. Please make it available to me so that I may share it with likeminded colleagues. I would also like to know the process by which this came to pass. Who first raised this issue and why? What committee reviewed all the data and did its due diligence in interviewing those of us with longstanding experience in backing midwives who perform out of hospital births. There must be a clear and concise, non-confidential paper trail you can share with your members. Specific names of committee members who voted for this would be enlightening and I am requesting this information. I would like to know the background and expertise regarding out of hospital birth for each member who had a hand in the decision to go to the AMA. We live in an odd era where once something is said or recommended by a legitimate organization such as ACOG it has deep ramifications never intended such as becoming fodder for trial lawyers trying to squeeze the lifeblood and dignity out of your members. In this case these ramifications have had the undesirable effect of forcing women to travel hundreds of miles in labor to find a supportive facility. Or even worse, to have them arrive in a VBAC banned hospital and refuse surgery or be coerced into it. Can this be the best we can do for our patients? Remember, your VBAC statement was meant to be only a recommendation but quickly became the rule by which hospital administrators, risk managers and anesthesia departments of smaller hospital banned this option for thousands of women. An option, which in proper hands, was the safe and accepted standard of care for 30 years. In fact, you still have an ACOG VBAC brochure that recommends this option! For those of us working at smaller hospitals where VBAC was banned due to lack of emergency help (anesthesia, OR crews, etc.) there is a big question that has perplexed us that no administrator seems to be willing or able to answer. That question is: "If a hospital cannot handle an emergency c/section for VBACs, and most obstetrical emergencies are for fetal bradycardia, hemorrhage (i.e. abruption) or shoulder dystocia not for ruptured uteri, then how can they do obstetrics at all?" For they seem to still be able to have a maternity ward without in house anesthesia. Will someday ACOG, in their great wisdom but seeming disconnect from reality, make a "recommendation" that little hospitals unable to afford 24-hour coverage stop providing obstetric services all together? Will this better serve women and their communities throughout America? I am frightened and angered by what you have done in my name. Now I ask you to defend your position in encouraging the AMA to lobby Congress for another restriction on the freedom of choice that belongs to women and their families. Those choices include midwifery and the right to have the most beautiful and life changing event occur wherever best fits their desire. I am baffled that my college thinks this should be a criminal act. Midwives are well trained and required to have obstetrical backup. They have very special relationships with their patients and want the very best outcomes for them. They do not need me or you to police them. We have a habit in out country over the past 40 years of thinking we can legislate out stupidity. All that has done is erode the individual freedoms that belong, by birthright, to each of us. I would hope you trust your Fellows to know their specialty, their colleagues, and what is best for the patient as an individual. These decisions do not belong to politicians or faceless committees. You should have more faith in your members to give balanced informed consent. Again, my recommendation to you is to put all your considerable energy into changing our legal malpractice system. Those of us actually practicing medicine and caring for patients know this to be the greatest threat to the mission and responsibility we have chosen to undertake. I look forward to your response and possibly the beginning of a meaningful dialogue. Sincerely, Stuart J. Fischbein, MD FACOG Medical Advisor, Birth Action Coalition as posted on http://birthactioncoalition.com/letter/stuart-j-fischbeins-letter-acog |
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Angela M Simpson, LCCE
 New Member Posts:16

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| 01 Jul 2008 04:07 PM |
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| Oops haha my foot fits well in my mouth. Want to see? ;-) |
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maria (guest) Posts:763

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| 01 Jul 2008 03:33 PM |
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She has been and is here. Check out the thread Two questions. I am sure she is also waiting for a response on the WHO question.
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Angela M Simpson, LCCE
 New Member Posts:16

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| 01 Jul 2008 11:47 AM |
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| The comments are back! But they haven't been touched since they were taken off. Maybe they're filtering the IPs allowed to comment? Anyway, so that her exact words are recorded someplace that they WONT be deleted, I wanted to cut and paste some things.
Here is her CV, cut and pasted directly from her post:
"Harvard College where I received my degree in biochemistry in 1979.
BU School of Medicine, where I got my MD 1984.
Boston's Beth Israel Hospital, intership and residency, 1984-88.
Boston' Beth Israel Hospital, practicing obstetrician.
Brigham and Women's Hospital, practicing obstetrician.
Harvard Medical School, Clinical Instructior in Obstetrics."
NOTE: There are no dates following her residency. She could have been practicing medicine for six months for all we know. What I do know is that she did "retire" from medicine because of her children, so she says. Cut and pasted again:
"Henci Goer has no license to practice medicine or midwifery and never did, but that's no problem. Ina May Gaskin practiced for years without a license and without training of any kind, and that's wonderful. Yet you claim to be deeply concerned that I voluntarily allowed my license to lapse after I retired to stay home with my children."
As far as I understand it, neither Henci nor Ina May have ever overstated their own credentials in an effort to make money giving advice.
I've never heard of a licensed doctor allowing their license to expire like that. Why wouldn't you keep your license active, even if you weren't working, just so that when you decide to work again its easier to just jump right in? I feel like there's got to be more to that then she's letting on.
I do find it amusing that she spends so much time blasting anyone on our side of the fence, and yet she doesn't come to this forum to throw in her two cents. Her opinion is that Henci would never make any statements in favor of home birth to OBs, but it seems to me that its quite the opposite. If she feels so strongly, why wont she come on our turf and discuss it here? And why does she spend so much energy demanding that Henci prove herself when in fact, Amy should be the one doing the explaining?
Not that I'm trying to encourage an all out battle in this forum, mind you.... It just annoys me when people are so contradictory. She screams and yells for studies and credentials, saying that we'd be too afraid to defend ourselves to the medical world, yet she doesn't cite studies thoroughly at all, she wont tell us exactly how long she actually practiced medicine, and she wont come on our turf to defend herself here.
I thought she was simply disillusioned by the medical model and I wasn't even going to say anything until she called Grantly Dick-Read a racist. I do wish I could have been a fly on the wall when she "chose" to stop working. I'd love to know the real reason. And I'd love to know how long she was actually working.
What I find most horrifying is that she charges for advice on her website. For $4.95 you can get:
"Premium response: Chance of pregnancy - This is a personal e-mail response detailing the chance of pregnancy in your specific situation.
This premium response applies ONLY to asking about the chances of pregnancy. No other questions about pregnancy or women's health will be answered through this service."
And for $14.95 you can get:
"Premium response: Questions about women's health - This is a personal e-mail response including a detailed answer to any question about women's health."
And, of course, she has her disclaimer: "Disclaimer: Keep in mind that this is not medical advice and is not a substitute for medical advice. Only a doctor who has examined you and is familiar with your medical records can give you medical advice."
That disclaimer is how she gets away with it. Ladies, save yourself the time. Spend the extra dollar and buy a pregnancy test. If you don't have insurance, find a clinic and talk to a REAL doctor.
And Amy, if you happen to have the courage to voice up HERE, you wont be worth responding to if you can't tell us EXACTLY how long you practiced medicine with an actual license to do so. Anyone who went to school 20 years ago can find a list of studies and quote them on a website. That doesn't make you a doctor. |
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Jenni (guest) Posts:763

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| 01 Jul 2008 05:39 AM |
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| I think she is a real person. (She wrote a book, right?) But I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out that her blog is backed by ACOG or AMA or some similar organization. Her blog is a "sponsored link" everywhere you go: Google, MySpace, even the Keep Home Birth Legal petition. |
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maria (guest) Posts:763

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| 30 Jun 2008 06:15 AM |
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Well, I went to check, and all the comments are gone!!!
Too bad. I was following it with interest because regardless of some rude comments, it did make me think and look at the different sides for my oan education.
Ah well.
maria.
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Angela M Simpson, LCCE
 New Member Posts:16

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| 30 Jun 2008 12:21 AM |
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| oops, I'm a little slow. haha apparently that's where the discussion here was coming from! Nevermind! |
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Angela M Simpson, LCCE
 New Member Posts:16

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| 29 Jun 2008 11:19 PM |
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OH my god has anyone been following the conversation at citypaper.com? I'm quoting our buddy Amy:
(Begin quote
"Grantly Dick-Read, the father of "natural" childbirth, made up his theory in order to convince white women of the "better" classes to have more children. He believe that if they could be convinced that the pain of childbirth was all in their heads, they would save the race by having more children. As he said:
"the mother is the factory, and by education and care she can be made more efficient in the art of motherhood"
According to the medical historian, Dr. Ornella Moscucci:
"The argument developed in Natural Childbirth and in its more famous sequel, Revelation of Childbirth (subsequently Childbirth Without Fear), mixed Darwinian themes, neurophysiological theories, and cultural stereotypes of childbirth among "primitive" people... Whether women experienced pain or not depended on cultural attitudes to childbirth rather than on some property inherent to parturition. Dick-Read ... claimed that primitives experienced easy, painless labours. This was because in primitive societies the survival value of childbirth was fully appreciated and labour was regarded as nothing more than "hard work" in the struggle for existence. In civilised societies on the other hand a number of cultural factors conspired to distort woman’s natural capacity for painless birth, producing in woman a fear of childbirth that hindered normal parturition...
To eliminate pain, the fear-tension-pain cycle must be broken ... Women had to be "tactfully, gradually and carefully initiated into the job they were about to perform". Education in the "facts" of natural childbirth and instruction in the methods of relaxation were the chief weapons in the battle against fear... According to Dick-Read, these psychological techniques would not only eliminate pain, but also shorten labour and reduce the need for surgical interference."
The idea that "primitive" women experience painless easy labors with excellent outcomes is nothing more than a racist, sexist stereotype."
End Quote.
OH MY GOD I'm horrified. Maybe I'm the last to hear this theory??? She can't REALLY believe that?!?!?!
Do you think she's spoken ever with women who have had un-intervened labors and deliveries? On second though..... do you think she's ever actually left her computer desk and smelled fresh air?
I thought that she was just a very strongly medical-model minded person on a mission, but seeing this makes me think she's absolutely lost her mind.
......She can't REALLY believe that, can she?! |
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Badbirthingmama (guest) Posts:763

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| 29 Jun 2008 09:53 PM |
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You don't lose being an MD because you are not licensed. You earn an MD degree at university. While it is a license as well, it is a degree confirmed on a student by the university.
If you completed medical school, you earn an MD. PERIOD. |
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Angela M Simpson, LCCE
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| 29 Jun 2008 05:43 PM |
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| AAAAAAMMMMMMEEEEEEEEENNNNNNN SISTER!!!!!!!!
I've been watching this thread in my email and just had to respond when I read your post. You hit the nail square on the head. Get from your patients FULLY INFORMED CONSENT, and watch those law suits magically decrease. Oh yeah, and hire some midwives while we're at it. BTW, if they say that they don't hire midwives because of their insurance rates, that's garbage too. Midwives have lower malpractice insurance than OBs. |
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DoulaJess (guest) Posts:763

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| 29 Jun 2008 04:11 PM |
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I am so tired of OBs saying they are moving into GYN only due to high malpractice insurance rates. I am quite sure the rates are high and impede on their practice BUT, the reason they are high is due to lawsuits. What infuriates me when lawsuits are mentioned is that it seems to be assumed that all lawsuits are illegitimate and filed by money-hungry persons with no actual reason to sue. I hear it all the time about a doctor who was supposedly sued for failing to chart some minor detail but you know most people who take the time and money to sue actually have a legitimate complaint. If OBs would be more careful about how they practice, develop a report with their patients (making them less likely to sue), and truly use INFORMED consent, I have no doubt that the rate of lawsuits would be lower. In most cases it is their failure to properly inform the parents of the risks involved in doing procedures that result in lawsuits.
Jessica
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Henci Goer, BA
 Ask Henci Posts:520

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| 28 Jun 2008 07:29 PM |
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Posted By n/a on 06/27/2008 5:38 PM
Actually....there are a SHORTAGE of OB's in this country because so many are going to GYN only due to incredibly high malpractice insurance premiums for OB. There are more women seeking OB care than there are OB's to see them...which could be one reason OB's only get those 5 minutes at appointments to talk to you...also, some women only want 5 minutes, so *shrug*
I seriously doubt that malpractice premiums are the issue whatever ob/gyns might say for why they dropped ob because the costs just get passed along in what obs charge. Let's put it this way: I'll believe in obs crying poor when the hospital doctors' parking lot is filled with older model compact cars.
-- Henci
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Denny Shore (guest) Posts:763

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| 28 Jun 2008 05:19 AM |
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| Actually, she is a real person, but she is no "MD". It was exposed on CityPaper.com blogs that she is NOt an "MD" as she has not been licensed for years. |
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Poogles (guest) Posts:763

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| 27 Jun 2008 10:38 PM |
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Posted By n/a on 06/26/2008 9:23 AM I agree with you, Henci. Natural birth, home birth, and midwifery pose a huge threat to the status quo. There are so many OB/GYNs in this country. What would they all do with themselves if midwives took their rightful place as the primary caregivers for the majority of pregnant and birthing women? Actually....there are a SHORTAGE of OB's in this country because so many are going to GYN only due to incredibly high malpractice insurance premiums for OB. There are more women seeking OB care than there are OB's to see them...which could be one reason OB's only get those 5 minutes at appointments to talk to you...also, some women only want 5 minutes, so *shrug*
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Henci Goer, BA
 Ask Henci Posts:520

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| 27 Jun 2008 01:01 AM |
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Posted By n/a on 06/26/2008 9:42 AM Oh, and by the way, I also found this forum via her blog. Hee. 
That tickles me too, and it is sweet justice. I have no doubt that her outrageousness is a deliberate strategy to garner lots of "hits" and therefore raise her profile on the search engines on the topics she writes about, a modern twist on the old PR saying, "I don't care what you say about me as long as you spell my name right."
I don't know if you ran across that thread while surfing this Forum, but some of us--including me--theorize that "Dr. Amy" is a disinformation strategy of the American College of Ob/Gyns. We can't prove it, of course, but as you may or may not be aware, it is not unknown for corporations and political groups to set up blogs and the like that appear to be independent but which are actually fronts.
-- Henci |
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Henci Goer, BA
 Ask Henci Posts:520

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| 27 Jun 2008 12:50 AM |
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Posted By n/a on 06/26/2008 9:23 AM
I've also been reading the homebirth debate blog. She really does go after anything and everything related to natural childbirth. I've seen her try to discredit not just midwives but also doulas and even lactation consultants!
I agree with you, Henci. Natural birth, home birth, and midwifery pose a huge threat to the status quo. There are so many OB/GYNs in this country. What would they all do with themselves if midwives took their rightful place as the primary caregivers for the majority of pregnant and birthing women?
Good question. What, indeed? The ob anesthesiologists would have a hard time of it too. Maybe there could be a government program to re-educate them for a more useful and productive line of work. ;-)
-- Henci
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Jenni (guest) Posts:763

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| 26 Jun 2008 02:42 PM |
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Oh, and by the way, I also found this forum via her blog. Hee.  |
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Jenni (guest) Posts:763

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| 26 Jun 2008 02:23 PM |
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I've also been reading the homebirth debate blog. She really does go after anything and everything related to natural childbirth. I've seen her try to discredit not just midwives but also doulas and even lactation consultants!
I agree with you, Henci. Natural birth, home birth, and midwifery pose a huge threat to the status quo. There are so many OB/GYNs in this country. What would they all do with themselves if midwives took their rightful place as the primary caregivers for the majority of pregnant and birthing women? |
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Henci Goer, BA
 Ask Henci Posts:520

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| 11 May 2008 06:18 AM |
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Great minds are thinking alike, here. Take a look at this thread under the "home birth and birth centers" heading.
There is, though, something else that I think explains the extreme animosity to physiologic birth and home birth, as opposed to a more reasonable "live and let live" attitude. Even though not many women in hospitals manage to have births without medical intervention and few women choose birth at home, physiologic birth in general and home birth in particular challenge the medical model of birth, which is the basis on which obstetricians derive their power and authority. This makes home birth and physiologic birth potent threats to the regime and therefore something that must be vigorously suppressed by any means no matter how few people it affects.
-- Henci |
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jules (guest) Posts:763

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| 10 May 2008 05:45 PM |
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| I've just read your article "The Assault on Normal Birth - the OB Disinformation campaign" published in 2002 and it backed up something I had been wondering about for a while. Whilst pregnant with my 4th child and planning a homebirth I spent sometime reading the homebirthdebate blogspot. I tried not to but it was fascinating the way information could be distorted to suit a particular objective. I began to wonder what could be driving this hatred of natural and homebirth advocacy. Given the tiny number of women who opt for homebirth in this country I couldn't see where all the anger was coming from (I don't believe it is from a genuine desire to improve maternity and neonatal statistics as the site suggests- there would surely be much better ways of achieving this). It occurred to me that maybe this was also part of ACOG's disinformation campaign to discredit homebirth and midwives. I was just wondering what your thoughts were. |
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