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Normal Birth Forum Featuring Henci Goer
Subject: The OB disinformation campaign

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maria (guest)

07/01/2008 11:19 PM Quote Reply
Oh, how refreshing. Thank you!
maria.
Henci Goer
Posts:0

07/02/2008 1:03 AM Quote Reply

Quote from Angela's post: "If [Tuteur] feels so strongly, why wont she come on our turf and discuss it here? And why does she spend so much energy demanding that Henci prove herself when in fact, Amy should be the one doing the explaining? Not that I'm trying to encourage an all out battle in this forum, mind you.... "

The first time Tuteur invaded this Forum, I had no idea who she was. After taking her seriously and writing detailed, thoughtful responses to her in a couple of back-and-forths, I realized I was dealing with what my son, much more knowledgeable than I, called a "troll," that is, someone who attempts to hijack a message board by bullying and being belligerant. During that same time period, a correspondent told me who she is and her agenda and advised me not to "feed the dragon," advice I heartily recommend to all of you. After thinking about it, I decided that the fair thing to do is to limit her to one post and one rebuttal to whatever I wrote in response. After that, I would delete further posts. That way she could have her say, but I would not permit her to use my Forum as another platform for an endless series of rants. I told her that was what I was going to do and I did it. And that is why you have not seen her on our "turf" until the past few days, when, as you can also see, I invoked my rule. It is, by the way, a rule I would apply to anyone else who behaves the way Tuteur does, but no one else ever has so far.

-- Henci

jules (guest)

07/05/2008 8:10 AM Quote Reply
Dr Tuteur has been highly critical of the Johnson and Davis study on home birth, arguing that it actually shows home birth to be more dangerous than hospital birth, in complete contrast to the study's conclusions - she has stated this many times on many different discussion boards. However when you go to the actual online study and read the responses to the Johnson and Davis article there is nothing there from Dr Tuteur stating her concerns. If she had real and valid concerns over the way the study was done wouldn't this be the best place to voice those concerns. I did note that the BMJ do vet all responses and won't publish anything obscene, libellous or rude - perhaps her reponse didn't get through their vetting procedure!!
maria (guest)

07/05/2008 11:52 AM Quote Reply
I noticed that as well. Also, I still have to find where Johnson and Daviss acknowledge their faking the study as Amy has said they did in diff places.

Someone did post this on the article debate http://understandingbirthbetter.com/section.php?ID=31&Lang=En&Nav=Section

Also, I a am perusing the WHO study and cannot find numbers to confirm what Dr. Amy says about the mortality rate.

I would like to see the exact places and quotes because obvisouly Ic an find them and I really want to get to the bottom of this.

maria.
Brandy Baker (guest)

07/05/2008 3:23 PM Quote Reply
I have to agree with Ms Goer concerning Dr Amy. I have also got sucked into debating her; it's a waste of time. I think that everyone should read BOTH sides of the debate, question the sources of and credibility of advocates on BOTH sides, then make up their own minds. Bickering will not move the cause forward for either side. Hi all, my name is Brandy and I am a writer, an independent filmmaker, and grad student. My background is literature and visual arts, however I used to be an activist and advocated for single payer health care (among other issues). I see a naturopathic doctor on a regular basis and I have long been interested in alternative medicine as I have strong criticisms of our for-profit health care system, pharmaceutical industry, especially. I have a friend who saw, "The Business of Being Born" and sent me a clip of it. I have not seen the film yet, but I have researched home birth after seeing the clip and the criticisms that home birth advocates have of hospital births closely mirrors that of others who want to reform the health care system in different ways. I understand that not all here may agree with single payer and have different opinions on many issues surrounding health care, and that is fine. A respectful exchange between people with different opinions is fine. Fighting with trolls, is, as I said above, a waste of time, I have learned. Our local alternative weekly here in Baltimore ran a great piece on home birth and I am here mainly to be educated and to learn more. I have read much of the information on this site, but this is my first time posting.
Henci Goer
Posts:0

07/05/2008 6:53 PM Quote Reply

I am delighted to have you joining the discussion. If you have continued interest in researching home birth, I suggest:

Fullerton JT, Navarro AM, and Young SH. Outcomes of planned home birth: an integrative review. J Midwifery Womens Health 2007;52:323-33.

I also suggest my deconstruction of the Pang 2002 home birth study, an extremely flawed study that is being used as evidence of the riskiness of home birth. The link Maria posted (I'm not sure whether it is in this thead or only in the home birth topic "two questions" thread) also has a superb discussion of home birth issues.

-- Henci

Brandy Baker (guest)

07/05/2008 8:14 PM Quote Reply
Thank you so much for the recommendations, looking forward to exploring forward to exploring this topic more. Best, BB
Jenn (guest)

07/09/2008 5:40 PM Quote Reply
Posted By Henci Goer on 06/28/2008 2:29 PM
I seriously doubt that malpractice premiums are the issue whatever ob/gyns might say for why they dropped ob because the costs just get passed along in what obs charge. Let's put it this way: I'll believe in obs crying poor when the hospital doctors' parking lot is filled with older model compact cars.
 
-- Henci


LOL!  I said much the same thing in a discussion on the HB Debate blog...that my heart wasn't really bleeding for the poverty of people with a median income of $250K.
Jenni (guest)

07/11/2008 1:38 AM Quote Reply
Hi, Brandy! It's Jenni. (I'm the one who sent her the "BOBB" clip.) I'm so glad you've developed an interest in home birth!
Jenni (guest)

07/11/2008 1:43 AM Quote Reply

Can anyone tell me anything about Tuteur's recent claims that babies are drowning during waterbirths? According to Barbara Harper, RN, founder of Waterbirth International and author of Gentle Birth Choices, babies die during waterbirth only if they are left under the water for a significant amount of time after the birth (i.e., after they stop receiving oxygenated blood from the placenta and umbilical cord).

Thanks!

Henci Goer
Posts:0

07/11/2008 7:24 PM Quote Reply

Have you tried contacting Barbara Harper about this? Her website is http://www.waterbirth.org/mc/page.do?sitePageId=38425&orgId=wi.

-- Henci

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